Why South Asian representation matters: chatting to Nurses & Grey’s Anatomy’s actor, Sandy Sidhu

Sandy Sidhu is a force of nature, whose positive energy effortlessly exuded through our Zoom call as we bonded over our love of Mindy Kaling and art. She is a ray of sunshine that has already worked with some of the biggest names in Hollywood like Shonda Rhimes, Sandra Oh and John M. Chu, and I had the pleasure of interviewing her about her experiences as an actress and her hopes for the future of her industry. One of the key things that thread throughout our conversation was the importance of representation and being represented properly, which few people are able to do. We have seen an improvement in the types of roles being offered to people of colour (POC) in the industry as we see more POC in the writing room and this is made prevalent with Sandy’s latest role. Sandy is currently starring in Nurses where she plays Nazneen who has moved to Canada from India in search of reinvention. We spoke about the representation of immigrants and the South Asian community on TV and how the writers of her show managed to create a character that represents both, without using the usual stereotypical tropes we usually see in the media. 

MR: You have appeared in so many amazing shows like Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Grey's Anatomy, what has been your favourite role so far and why?

SS: You know, I'm the type of person that always finds something positive from every experience that I've ever had. I really cherish my time working on any project I’m a part of. Working on a Shondaland set was an unbelievable experience, Shonda Rhimes has a way of setting up an atmosphere of inclusivity and diversity that is just so authentic and she’s so good at storytelling and casting just the right person for the job, regardless of race, she just hires the right person for the role. 

Jesse Williams was amazing to work with and the rest of the cast and crew were so welcoming, it was such a positive experience, but on top of that, they also gave me a leg up in my career. So that was a pretty pivotal moment for me. Being cast on Grey’s Anatomy really changed my career, doors of casting rooms that I couldn’t get into before suddenly opened for me, so it was definitely rewarding on so many levels. 

I just shot this independent film earlier this year in Canada and it's a South Asian story, and it was an incredible experience doing a story about the South Asian community, my community. It was so powerful looking around and thinking “oh my God, where are the leads? This is crazy. And then realising that it’s us! I can't tell you how powerful that was and it also had a strong family vibe off-camera and I'm excited to see how that project pieces together. Every time you're a part of something, you never really know how it's going to land, like any artform, you make the attempt and you don't really know what the product's going to look like, but it was such a joy to make and that's something I'm really excited about too.

MR: Yeah, absolutely.

And I think the thing about Grey's Anatomy is that it was such a pioneer in that whole ‘having a diverse cast and it not being a top headline’ type of thing. Do you know what I mean? It's just a show about a group of people working in a hospital. They didn't make race, culture or anything like that the main plot, which I find happens in a lot of stories where they have a mixed cast and the writers then clutch onto common tropes and use that as the main vein when writing for their show. What the writers of Grey’s Anatomy do so well is write whole characters. It's always very organic and authentic which I love, and I think helps bring out other stars, you know like…

SS: Sandra Oh.

MR: Right!

SS: I actually got to work with her on a commercial she hired me for in Canada a couple of years back, which is huge. So, it was crazy getting off of Season One of Nurses and then my first project being this project working with Sandra Oh. 

I was so excited to work with her because when I was on Grey's Anatomy she wasn't on the show at that point. And so just to reiterate what you were saying, the show gave her the platform for the world to really recognise that she's been around for a while and that she's this unbelievable force and talent. She’s just so unbelievable. Everyone on that show has their own strengths but just to use Sandra Oh as an example, she was given this opportunity, which, you know, I think her talent has always been the same, but just didn't have the vehicle necessary to kind of connect her to the broader audience before that show.

Sandy Sidhu with the cast of Nurses

MR: Yeah. And that's the thing, that's why I absolutely love it when things are done in a way that the world can connect to it. Do you know what I mean? And then there are people who you may have known and seen in movies or TV shows being brought to the forefront and finally getting the recognition they deserve. For instance, I've been a major K drama fan for years and watching people's reactions to Squid Game was so wild. This thing that was very niche and I could only talk about with a handful of my friends now being brought to the forefront and accepted was immense. Although now I’m kind of weary that Hollywood will try and capitalise on the popularity of K dramas like they did with K pop. 

SS: No, I did too. I used to be really into K dramas in university, I don’t remember what the shows were called now, but they make great content. I'm right there with you and the actors are amazing.

MR: They do! They can wrap up what we would have made into 5 seasons into a 16 episode arch. 

SS: Yeah. Squid Game was oh, so good. It's amazing, one of the best shows I've ever seen, but so disturbing, that show got to my brain. That show is so complex and I couldn’t believe it when I heard that the showrunner shopped that show around for like 10 years. 

MR: I know, and that also speaks volumes about how people react to things created by people of colour and how they can sell this content. They say that content made by POC is difficult to sell because it won’t translate well to “Western society” or to the white majority, and it just goes to show you that people want to see these stories and that people don't mind reading subtitles if the content is good.

I think it’s been made pretty clear that these stories do well, we’ve seen it with Get Out and Parasite doing so well and winning Oscars. These stories are needed and can succeed if given a chance. As well as shows like Bridgerton which was so well received worldwide. I think there's a hunger, there's a thirst for content like this when it's done correctly and yeah, it's just about putting it out there. I agree. And being able to put people like yourself in these shows really is the first step in bridging that gap, I think.

SS: Yeah. I think the great thing about Squid Game is that it removes the argument that people of colour can't be the sole riding vehicle for a project. In my opinion, Squid Game taught the world that a great story is a great story and it doesn't matter who’s headlining it. 

MR: Absolutely! So, you were also on Supernatural where you played Constance, what was it like to work with the Winchesters? 

SS:  They were unbelievable. I actually made a point to leave them alone on set because I think I came in very late on the show. Like I can't even remember what season, I think it was like season 14. 

MR: Yeah, it was season 14. 

SS: So, you know it was like season 14 at that point and I assumed that because they have this long-standing cast they wouldn’t be interested in a guest star like me. So I remember having a scene with them and I was really blown away because they came up to me and welcomed me to the show. They sat down with me and made an effort to get to know me which was really wonderful, even in between takes they took the time to chat with me.

I told them how blown away I was by their sincerity and generosity, even though I was only there to shoot a single episode. I remember saying to them, you deserve everything that you have and that I was so thrilled that this project was such a success. Again I was truly blown away by their behaviour, I can only say the best things about them. They are wonderfully kind, open, authentic individuals, and very talented actors. The set was so great, they were gushing about their wives the whole time and I could tell the atmosphere of the show was created by this wonderful group of people, it spoke volumes to me that they were still making sure that I had a positive experience on their show and they wanted to make sure that I felt welcome. I was just like, wow, season 14 and you're still making this effort, that's pretty unbelievable. I had that same experience on Grey's Anatomy as well, so you know, kind of a bit of a reflection of why these shows keep carrying on perhaps, you know? 

MR: Yeah I think it's also about creating a good environment for everyone, because when it's cohesive and everyone's happy in what they do and feel listened to you don’t have that feeling of unfairness or drama and everyone feels respected.  I think that's the key to success in anything, company, life or show, you know what I mean?

SS: And I think that speaks volumes and I can see how their chemistry as brothers translates on screen, because they really have that exact same chemistry off cameras.

MR: That’s so true. 

MR: You’re currently on NBC’s Nurses, can you tell me a little bit more about the show?

SS: Yeah, Nurses is a story about five rookie nurses who work the front lines of a busy downtown Toronto hospital and in their attempt as new nurses who are trying to save as many lives as they can, they're also discovering who they are as they're imparting in a new journey of this new career. This job really exposes their own vulnerabilities, weaknesses and strengths and their bonds begin to unfold as they go through that process of learning to do the job, then also trying to figure out who they are.

 MR: I heard your mother is a Nurse IRL, does she help coach you through the role so everything looks authentic?

SS: Yeah. You know, I get that question all the time. The crazy thing is I only ever asked my mum one question in regards to my character on the show, which is, can I paint my nails, because I feel like Nazneen is quite feminine in her self-expression but she said, no, you need clean hands for the job. That's actually the only thing I ever asked my mum, but I do have a degree in Cell Biology and Genetics.

MR: I was just going to say! Does your degree in Cell Biology and Genetics come in handy on set? 

SS: Yeah, I would say it gives me an advantage. Truth be told, I'm not afraid to admit this but I have the memory of a goldfish. I don't know why I do but I think it lends to a happy life, even though I forget everything, fast and my short-term memory is the best. Give me an evening and I could probably regurgitate an encyclopaedia the next morning, but you tell me the next day, any sort of tidbit from that encyclopaedia and I won’t remember. So unfortunately I don't remember much of my degree, but the one thing that stayed with me going through that program is my basic understanding of how to learn something, so I'm not intimidated when I get that material in a script. 

I did think about becoming a doctor, but I just wasn't really happy in that process and that was my own personal journey in realising I wanted to become an actor. I was really surprised when I realised growing up with my mum how quiet she actually is and how she doesn't really talk about her job either. The amazing thing I learned by working on Nurses is how my mum would come home every single night and she would act like she never had a bad shift at work. She would just be so positive and pleasant when she'd see us kids and she was always like that. She always came home and I never really felt like her job ever affected her. And then I remember, you know, going through the scripts, being like, oh my God, of course, it affected her. I realise now just how much of a real strength that is and that says so much about my mother's character, I don't know how she does, honestly. I don't know how she did it growing up, being fully available to us and I know when she's at work, she's fully available to her patients too. 

And so I think about my love for my mother and the respect that I have for her and I'm surprised at just how much I already know about her and how much of her legacy I'd already carried with me. Nazneen was one of those roles where I just had a really special connection. I knew where I wanted to take her, I knew where I wanted her to sit in my body and what part of her I wanted to express and explore. And that doesn't happen often for me as an actor, where I just know. 

MR: You were truly connected to her. 

SS: Yeah, it was a real gift as an actor to kind of go through an experience like that. For me, playing Nazneen was an intuitive process and I just took it script by script and it really was a personal experience.

MR: That's awesome. I love that. I think when you find that role and you're truly connected to it, or you're working on something that brings that organic connectivity and everything feels easy and falls into place you have to go for it. 

SS: Yeah. I loved playing that character. I was very protective of her, you know, I wanted to make sure that she was shown in a way that felt as true as possible as I can make her.

MR: It is so refreshing to see Nurses take a step into the limelight and become the main focus of the show, we haven’t had a show like that since Nurse Jackie. What attracted you to the role?

SS: Yeah, it was like a lightning in a bottle experience for me when I got the audition for this role, I just intuitively went, oh my God, I know her. I know her, I understand her and I know how I want to explore the different parts of her. I don't quite understand yet. Also, it was so powerful for me to see a narrative about an immigrant coming to North America, trying to find her own way and walk a truly independent path because my mum immigrated from India to Canada and became a nurse Nazneen immigrated from India to Canada and became a nurse, so this storyline felt I very parallel to my own life so I was very protective of it. In the past, people have fallen into a slight trap of stereotyping what an immigrant is and I really took my task as seriously as possible to make sure that Nazneen was just her own human individual and that I didn't fall into any of those negative perceptions of an immigrant experience. I wanted to humanise her and that was my goal. So when they cast me, I felt a tremendous responsibility and excitement that I got to have that chance to help share that story. And although Nazneen is very different in personality from my mum, I still want to honour her experience. I'll always cherish the opportunity to look after that narrative and hopefully, I did my job well. 

MR: What’s the best part of playing Nazneen?

SS: The best part about playing Nazneen is experiencing the amount of love she has for herself. She might struggle with doubt, confusion, go through fear, but that girl loves herself. You know, what I love about the pilot is when she's talking to one of her patient's mothers she says something like, “I don't hate myself, I love myself and here you may call it vanity but to me, it’s just love”. I’m paraphrasing it so poorly but I remember when I read that in the script, I thought, wow, that's huge, that's so powerful to see a woman have that kind of sense of self and love for herself and I made sure that I tried not to forget that because I struggled to love myself. I feel like I'm always a work in progress with insecurities that can be so all-consuming.

Sometimes I wish I was a bit more like Nazneen, just literally being like I'm bad-ass, I'm awesome and that's something I don't ever doubt, you know, so I think that's one of the best parts about playing her and then the layers that come after that, the humanity, her compassion for patients. I wanted to make sure that even if she struggles with being a bit selfish in her life and a bit disconnected with her wealth and privilege at the end of the day, she really does try to listen and stay connected to people and I loved that. 

MR: Yeah, I love that and I think self-love is something like with any form of love, you have to keep working on it, you know what I mean? Like it's not something that is ever-flowing that never runs out, you have to keep it going in order to keep the bottle full. You have to keep nurturing it. 

SS: Yeah. It's so important to do it because we're not here for very long on this planet and we deserve to enjoy it and have a good time and think the best of ourselves. It's one of the most important things to me that I realised as soon as I started to love myself a lot more, interestingly enough, that's kind of when my career opportunities started rolling in more and more and more, which I thought was interesting.

MR: Yeah, I think like with anything in life, it's all about the energy you put out when you're ready and you're in that right headspace and everything's aligned then positive things can happen in your life. Like I think a lot of the time positive attracts positive in a way, even if, usually, even when you're in a negative headspace and something positive does come in your life, you're too clouded to see it. When everything is aligned you’re more open and receptive and it shows, you have a glow and I think that's why I think everything in life's connected. 

SS: No, I agree. Mary, I love that perspective for sure.

MR: With The Resident and Grey’s Anatomy ending there’s a real thirst for medical dramas, what makes Nurses stand out from the rest?

SS: Well, it's about nurses, you know, it's about the narrative of the show and I think that is the standout of the show, that it's not sidelining roles in the hospitals from an audience's point of view as being less important than the doctors. There are like 20 million medical drama shows about doctors that have reinforced rightfully so how unbelievably important they are, they're heroes in their own right. But Nurses, our show, gives those frontline workers a platform to be like, they're equally as important because they're there at the bedside of patients every day and that it cannot be undervalued and the day-to-day tasks, the mundane tasks that they have to go through could be life-saving. It's not uncommon for a nurse to track something in a patient then relay it to a doctor that will change the path of their recovery plan which is why I think this show will help expand our knowledge of how the full system works in a hospital. Nurses are an integral part of the hospital and although they might not be as highly paid or receive pay that correlates to the work that they do they play an important role in patient care and recovery. 

I know from personal experience that nurses have a huge impact on a patient's quality of care and recovery and a good nurse can really change your day around and possibly change the patient's outcome. That's what we cherish is that opportunity that we've got to expand and honour them and put a spotlight on those at the time, unsung heroes, but I hope now with the pandemic, we can really recognise that they're not so unsung anymore and that we owe them so much gratitude. 

MR: That's so true, nurses play such an integral part in a hospital and I love that your show recognises that. 

SS: Absolutely!

MR: In the last few years, thanks to writers like Mindy Kaling, South Asian women and men have become more prominent on our screens, have you noticed a shift in more opportunities? 

SS: With the diversity push in Hollywood, I would say over the last three to five years, I have noticed a big shift in the type of auditions I get. I'm really lucky that my management team would never put me forward for roles that were stereotypical, they would always try to have me go out for as much as I could. I went through a real tough time in the early part of my career because there just wasn't any interest in adding me to larger plot points, maybe other actors had a different experience, but it was a real tough go. I love acting and so my continuation of maintaining my path in my career came from just the passion of doing what I love to do. But I did notice when suddenly there were stories that were reflecting our community and the outside world of how we actually live on a day to day basis, and the realities of how diverse our world is, and how many stories are out there. There was a real Social Media and media push in general to recognise that we needed more diversity in front of our screens. I have noticed a shift in those opportunities, but at the same time, it's still predominantly Caucasian for those leading roles and it never really hit an equal percentage, we just have more opportunities. 

Streaming sites have actually really helped, going from the lack of roles that I had initially in my early career to now I do feel there’s been a big change, but I can also recognise that there's still so much work to be done. I am grateful for the South Asian actors in Hollywood that have made waves in Hollywood like Mindy Kaling, Priyanka Chopra and Frida Pinto, these actors that have enjoyed mainstream success. Whenever I see someone who is South Asian on-screen I celebrate that because I'm recognising that they're making my job, my next opportunity that much easier, you know, for me here in Canada with Nurses, I hope that that opportunity can give other actors that are just starting out in their careers an easier time too, because the more we see South Asians in leading roles it reinforces to an audience and producers and casting that it's okay to lend stories to South Asians and people of colour.

I'm grateful for the push and I hope that it keeps leading to more, but it's always been a bit of a struggle, you know, you just don't get the same opportunities, but you can't focus on that, otherwise, you just go bananas. I never really knew if my dreams were going to come true. I can't say that I'm someone who knew they were going to get a leading role,  just knew that I loved acting and I couldn't think of doing anything else. I thank my lucky stars that I was given that opportunity to do that.

Diversifying the industry is still a work in progress, but I look forward to the day where the game is fairer. I want to get to the point where we can have an Indian Spiderman, but right now people are not ready for that. 

MR: Absolutely! I remember when they played with the idea of having Idris Elba play Bond and the uproar was insane. 

SS: Oh god I remember that. I got excited when I saw that and that proves that there's so much room to grow and real equality in Hollywood will be when the best person is hired for the job regardless of their race. Shows like Bridgerton give me hope. I am hopeful because I am slowly seeing more people of colour in the writer’s room, I’m running into more women of colour who are fighting to become directors, producers and showrunners of their own show and it's really encouraging. 

MR: Yeah, absolutely. And I've got to say it has improved over the years. I remember when I was a kid, I used to always wonder why there were no South Asian people on screen or anywhere in Hollywood. I used to think like there are no South Asian people in America! 

SS: Aww, you did that.

MR: Yeah, because it didn’t make any sense to me. We had Apoo in the Simpsons so I knew they were aware that South Asian people existed but there were no real-life brown people on TV or in movies. 

SS: Yeah, it was really hard. I never had any real examples other than Jasmine, which was another stereotypical portrayal of a brown person. 

MR: Exactly! Whenever they would reference Indian people they were referencing the indigenous peoples of America and I was confused as hell by it, because I grew up in London and I was surrounded by people from different parts of Asia all the time and I didn’t understand why my screen didn’t reflect that. 

SS: Aww, you’re so wonderful Mary, what a beautiful thought to have. 

MR: It bothered me. It wasn't until I got older and movies like Harold and Kumar started coming out that I was like, oh my God, an Indian guy, like wow. I did notice there was more representation in Canadian shows like Degrassi but everywhere else it was like you didn’t exist. It was so wild. 

SS: I know! I think that really kind of amplified why I didn't believe in myself for a big part of my career. I didn't think I would get the opportunity to do what I love to do cause I never saw myself reflected on screen. I think I still struggle with imposter syndrome even after being a lead on a show because of that reinforced narrative growing up. It's powerful, when you're a kid and you don't see any examples of yourself, that does something to you. I remember when I realised I loved acting and I wanted to do it, I did pursue it, but simultaneously I didn't believe I could do it either. So, I was just going on this crazy path because I thought, who am I to do this when I don't see myself on screen. I like to think that now kids growing up can see themselves on screen, South Asian representation is so much more prevalent now and I think this generation will be like, of course, I can be an actor, I'm just going to go for it which is huge and I'm so happy for the next generation.

MR: It is huge and it does stand out. I mean, I think being represented correctly is so important because you can see yourself on screen, you can see someone that looks like you, but you may not necessarily see someone that represents who you are as a person, which is why it's so important to have good writers, writers of colour who can tell those stories correctly. 

SS: Yes! It's interesting you say that I recently read an article about Riz Ahmed where he said, the Muslim community still isn't represented the way that it should be and so this is like a major A-list movie star that's still so frustrated with the content and the narratives that are being portrayed with his own community.

And it's so important. I just hope people don't feel like the diversity push should end anytime soon, I hope they just recognise that we’re only starting to begin to understand who we are as a collective global community. And we're starting to enrich that narrative slowly, and we're just getting started and it's not saying that Caucasian narratives aren't important, but it's just bringing people of colour and other minorities who haven't seen themselves reflected correctly and for us to continue to have those strong writers and producers and teams involved that just keep expanding. There are so many stories that haven't been shared yet and I'm excited to see those projects come forward that haven't manifested yet.

MR: Same, I really hope the same. And I think like what you were saying, it's not about us versus them, it's just about a true representation of life.

We have all of these different people with different stories, so it's just being true to the art form. Actually being a true storyteller and telling a story about life, which would include people from the LGBTQ+ community, people from the disability community, people of colour, women and so on. Do you know what I mean? It will include so many different types of people because we don't all look the same and we don’t all have the same lived experiences.

SS: We’re all going through a human experience and it's so important for us to not feel alone and to know that we are loved, accepted and perfect just the way we are. We all have our own struggles, our own vulnerabilities but no one is more important than someone else. That's why stories really do matter and I think that what we see on television is important. It really does help expand our consciousness and understanding of other people in the community around us. And that's why it's so important to never give up on maintaining those stories. 

MR: For sure. Representation is so important especially when it’s done correctly, what movies or shows have you watched recently where you have felt represented as a person?

SS: I've never been asked that before. Wow, I’ve never thought about that. You know, I'm not gonna lie, it can be a bit of a struggle for me to see who I actually am represented by on-screen. Yeah, I think that's why Mindy Kaling was so huge for so many people because she represented two cultures, both North American and South Asian cultures at once. I’m Canadian and South Asian so that really resonated with me, my parents are immigrants and they didn't understand the Canadian culture when they first came here, just those idiosyncrasies that a country has. They came with their Indian culture and when I was born, I was born into the Canadian culture but I was raised under a household that came from an Indian cultural background. So when I was growing up it gave me a lot of empathy because I could recognise that there are two cultures at once that I was living with and growing up with. But there was a struggle also that came with that because I grew up in a predominantly Caucasian community and so I did deal with racism, I did deal with a lot of doubt but I also had a lot of wonderful friendships as well, and a lot of positive experiences. Again, it's interesting that you say that you know, but I can't quite articulate what I haven't seen that's missing. I just can't even say what part of myself I haven’t seen yet, but I can kind of say no, not quite yet. I haven't watched something where I'm like, she stole me, that’s me! How come I didn’t audition for that role? That's me! I haven't had that experience quite yet. Maybe I'm not self-aware enough to know or recognise myself. 

MR: I think Mindy Kaling is amazing, what she did with The Mindy Project really resonated with so many women who are in that sort of like realm of being intelligent and being in a professional setting but then also having that other side where they love The Bachelor and are into pop culture and they may present a certain image and people may assume they’re stupid purely because of their personal likes but that’s just one side of you. It’s a struggle to find that balance or confidence where people are like, oh, I can take her seriously, you know. I do feel like as women, that's something we struggle with, I know I do. It’s crazy to me that you can have a conversation with someone about politics or something philosophical, but then you also want to talk about Real Housewives, you know, but as soon as you do there’s like this shift and people begin to perceive you differently. Mindy Kaling created a character that celebrated that and was all of those things and more and I felt seen and felt ok to be me. 

SS: You're so right. I think you kind of helped articulate what I couldn't. The South Asian experience is so much more complex than that one perception we often see represented. When you see a South Asian woman cast in a role, I still think the writers aren't necessarily interested in representing South Asian performers in their true complexity, humanity and vulnerabilities. They tend to focus on and implement a few aspects of that experience, only showing what they want to portray. And that's what was so great about The Mindy Project because she was just a New York girl trying to find love, who, you know, was throwing tantrums at work left-right and centre but you loved her for it. And she was just a human being failing and succeeding every day in life and her work as a Doctor. 

MR: Oh my god, yes! And although she was a doctor she wasn't perfect. She had human issues and I think that resonated with a lot of people. Also, like what we were saying earlier about being the child of an immigrant, like me too. Both of my parents are from East Africa and you do kind of feel bi-cultural in that sense.

SS: Yeah, you totally do. 

MR: You know, you have that connection with your roots with the different foods and things that you grew up with, but then you grew up in a different country and culture to your parents and you find yourself trying to find your place in that but you kind of feel like you're always in-between because… 

SS: You don't feel like you're part of either.

MR: Exactly, because you're not really accepted on either side because you speak to family members who are from back home and they’re like, oh you're so white and then you speak to white people anywhere in the Western world and you might hear comments like where are you really from? So you kind of feel like you're kind of living in this limbo, you know, and I feel like Mindy Kaling can portray all of that in a single story with her writing. You can see it in her comedy, but underneath it all there are all of these subtleties that sort of make commentary to that. Do you know what I mean? Like her relationship with Danny Castillano and all the little cultural digs that he would make. 

SS: Yeah, she empowered our narrative, you know, she made it something to be proud of and she's such an amazing writer, she's so talented. I don't know how she does it. 

MR: I know right! She actually educates society without them realising it. Like Never Have I Ever, that show is able to discuss different topics with such ease, Mindy was able to cover all the different aspects of growing up and include the story about a South Asian family, in plain sight, as the MAIN leads AND a diverse group of friends! I was completely floored by it. 

SS: Man, If I had that show growing up, I love that show. I wish I had that show growing up but you know what, at least it exists now and again kudos to Mindy Kaling for giving such a gift to the world and to younger audiences. I'm so thankful that she committed to seeing that project through so that the younger audience could connect to something and say, that's me. I relate to that and it's such an exciting time right now, we just have to keep going.

MR: Definitely! Do you have any new projects in the works?

SS:  Yeah. The project is called Donkeyhead and it's based on an Indian family out in the middle of Regina, Canada in the middle of winter. We filmed in minus 40, it was crazy. It was so cold, we couldn't even be outside for five minutes because we would get frostbite but we had such a great time. When you have a wonderful team involved, then you can do anything. It's a family drama centred around this woman named Mona and she's taking care of our father who is dying of cancer and things come to a head, her three siblings, and I'm one of the siblings become home.

Donkeyhead, streaming now on Netflix

And this very dysfunctional family environment gets forced to address the issues within our family that we have kind of been running away from for years. And it all kind of comes down to this time when we're all together because our dad, who's dying, has forced us all under one roof again. So, that's what I love about this story, it's not afraid to look at the love and issues within this family. It's a story about love and the love of family, but also the fact that we’re a South Asian family that have dysfunctional aspects in our relationships and have a lot of things that we need to work through that doesn't make us less than. We deserve to be recognised in all aspects of life and show the frailty of our humanity and this project exemplifies that.

MR: No, I love that. Definitely like what you were saying about the ideal sort of minority stereotype that has followed the Asian community for aeons and this movie is really breaking that down by letting your characters just be human, you know, and I love that because I feel like sometimes that “model minority” stereotype is used as a clutch by so many writers. And because of that, they write generic roles about a South Asian woman who works as a Doctor/Dentist/Lawyer with some basic storyline that doesn’t really show who she is and then they think that’s enough, you have been represented. 

But instead, breaking that down and just being like, this is just a family going through something and not using these stereotypes and other generic writing tools to create something and instead just writing about a family who is going through something and the fact that they’re South Asian not being the whole basis of the story. I really think that's where we need to go as a society in terms of writing, not focusing so much on race and culture but writing a story that’s a human piece with full character development.

SS: Oh my god Mary, Yes! I agree with everything you just said.

MR: Ha! It’s true. I really feel like that's the way we need to go and I feel like that's where the best writers go. It's like what we were saying about Mindy Kaling with her shows like Never Have I Ever, it's a show about a group of friends who are in high school or junior high and they're just going through generic things that we all went through when we were in school, sans social media.

SS: Typically a role like that would go to a blonde. 

MR: Yeah and then her friends would be either an Asian chick or black chick, but never both.

SS: Yes. That's how we grew up.

MR: Yup, there could only be one person of colour in the friend group. 

SS: Hopefully, you know, the children from the next generation won’t have that knowledge. Hopefully, that way of working will be a thing of the past and people will look back at shows and movies that we grew up watching and think how crazy we were. Recently I started watching older films that I used to love and I couldn’t believe that I never realised the lack of diversity in them when I was a kid. How did I not realise this? 

MR: I know, it’s so crazy that it was our norm, you know, like that's what we had to watch, so we didn't know any better. I watched 10 seasons of Friends and never noticed the lack of diversity. It was just a well written funny show and I guess we had been conditioned to not see our faces on screen at the time and that’s what we want now, we want shows where the audience doesn’t notice the diverse cast and just enjoy the show, just as we did growing up. I don’t want to always be a headline or a first. You didn't notice? It was just like, oh, this is hilarious. And it's like, and that's what we want.

SS: Exactly, no one cared that everyone was Korean in Squid Game, they just appreciate how good the show was. Everyone loved all the characters and it was one of the most popular shows ever made. Hopefully what we're teaching studio heads, producers, people making content and green lighting projects is the audience doesn't care. 

MR: Exactly! Like what we were saying earlier about movies like Crazy Rich Asians. That movie was phenomenal and it showed everyone that movies centred around people of colour can do well.  

SS: Good on John M Chu. I was really lucky to be hired for an Apple project by John and I remember when I walked in Crazy Rich Asians had just come out and I was just like, this is the man that made it happen. And I remember reading an article where they wanted it to go straight to streaming and he fought for it to go to theatres because he really believed it was going to succeed. And man, did it ever? And so when I got the chance to just be in the same room as him, I was just like, this is amazing, this is what dreams are made of, just being able to connect to creatives that have the audacity to, during that big. Yeah. And that's, that's what it takes.

MR: You have to be audacious. You've got to be like, I'm going to take that space and that's it. That's all you can do, otherwise things will never change, I think.

SS: Yeah, and it is happening, it’s happening. 

MR: I’m so excited to see what we do as a society next in terms of the art world and fashion world. Let’s continue to create a truly diverse society and media that reflects that correctly. 

SS: I wonder if I have no idea. I think we've all been so isolated for so long. It's going to be interesting to see what we all connect to when we come out of this pandemic. I think it's going to be a Renaissance, potentially, hopefully, maybe. I think we've all gained such different insights and perspectives through this time that we never would have had otherwise, it’ll be interesting to see the result of that creatively.

MR: I agree. So, the last question, I ask everyone this because it's always interesting to see what people say. Name three things you can’t do without?

SS: Well, my water bottle.

MR: Yes, water is life! 

SS: I'm so glad you get it. When I'm on set, I have like a one-gallon water bottle and I have a reputation of like, wherever I go, then people slowly have the same water bottle on set because they see me drinking so much water. Number two things I can't live without, love, I’m so cheesy. I would have to think of something creative now. I don't know, my dog, my husband or my family. I don’t know. 

MR: Yeah, well you can say that they are all included under the umbrella of love.

SS: That's true um, a good night's sleep? I don't know what to tell you, I'm a simple person.

MR: No, I'm the same. I would probably say the same thing.

SS: Running shoes! I’m a huge fan of running shoes. My sister always jokes that I ruin every outfit with a pair of running shoes. When converse sneakers came back I was like, I'm ahead of you, I am so ahead of you. Running shoes have become so popular now.

MR: Yeah, they’re like the new Yoga pants. 

SS: They all are like the new yoga pants! I've been on that train my whole life. So what about you, what are three things that you can't live without?

MR: Wow! Okay, so definitely I would say water. Literally can’t live without it. 

SS: Yeah 

MR: Hmm, I’m trying to think of a way of consolidating all of my favourite things into three things. Good company. 

SS: Yeah. 

MR: I was born into a large family and I’m the last born so I was always entertained. So on top of being the baby of the family, I'm also a Gemini.

SS:  Oh my god, same! 

MR: No wonder we vibe! so I always need to be entertained, so good company is so important. 

SS: I love that. Ok, what else?

MR: Ok, what else… 

SS: It’s not easy is it? 

MR: Oh my god it’s so hard! I guess good company would bring me good wine, so lastly I would say art. I can’t live without art in my life. 

SS: Yes! I need to change my answer. Can I just have the same answers as you? Water, love and art. 

MR: Yeah! Love that.

SS: Yeah. I'm an avid painter, I paint a lot. Well, I've been drawing since I was three. I have a million sketchbooks, actually. That's one thing I want to get back into more is drawing and painting. I always say I do it all the time, but I really haven't these last few years. But that's something I'd like to get into as well. Do you do any drawing painting or is it just the consumption of art?

MR: That’s awesome! Yes, absolutely the consumption of art. I was a dancer, so I loved choreographing and creating. I also love to write, I love to write poetry to deal with my anxiety and work through my emotions.  So yeah, I've always, yeah, I do. I do how I used to joke with my anxiety. I will write it down.

SS: That's amazing. One of my favourite poet poetry writers, Rupi Kaur, that's what she does with her anxiety, she channels it all into her amazing work. It's amazing and so beautiful the way we express our emotions. That's how it comes out and how it manifests, it's all so individual.

MR: Yeah, it really is. And that’s why keeping art alive is so important to me and making it accessible to everyone. Make it a base for everything that you do in life. 

SS: Absolutely, here’s to more art and water in our lives. 

You can check out Sandy’s new movie, Donkeyhead on Netflix. 

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