If you haven’t already heard of Hannah Rankine or The Han Jan Ran Show, you soon will.

As the host of The Han Jan Ran Show Podcast (available on Spotify and all other streaming platforms) and after being diagnosed with epilepsy and taking some time off work in the first coronavirus lockdown, Hannah Rankine decided to start The Han Jan Ran Show. It’s a podcast that breaks down boundaries by having open and honest conversations around race, activism, feminism, tokenism, parenting, childbirth and so much more.

Hannah's investment in learning about others' experiences, and her curiosity and care for equality and equity is ever present throughout the podcast. With two seasons under her belt and guests including the likes of Tiwalola of Confident and Killing It (who we recently did a Q&A with), Alice Aedy, Lucy Watson, Liz Beardsell (who we interviewed not too long ago) and up and coming singer Call Me Loop, to name just a few, it’s clear the podcast is well-received.

With audacity as its focal point, we had some frank and often very honest conversations about mental health, childbirth, gender and sexuality and a whole lot more. Check out our Q&A below and find out more information on Hannah on her website or on the podcast’s Instagram @thehanjanranshow or even Hannah’s own Instagram @hanjanran.

E: What prompted you to start The Han Jan Ran Show podcast in the first coronavirus lockdown?

H: So many strange stars aligned to allow me to launch my podcast in the first lockdown. Firstly, it was pretty damn weird that we were in a pandemic, but this meant that we were at home with more time to fill. During the lockdown I experienced about 6 seizures in as many weeks and was diagnosed with epilepsy. It is an absolutely draining experience to have a fit so my work gave me 2 months off to adjust to medication and rest. I don’t mind resting but I like to be doing something at the same time.

The premise of the show had been brewing in me for ages but I finally had the chance to formulate it more structurally. Thanks to a dear friend of mine being my person to bounce all my ideas off, I was able to create the podcast that was a long time coming.

E: You cover a wide range of topics throughout Seasons 1 and 2, are there any that have come up that have particular resonance for you personally?

H: Addressing my role in racism as a white person was a really confronting and challenging experience but one I was grateful to commit to doing in Season 1. There has been a lot of growing and learning for me in Season 2 thanks to my amazing guests that have resonated with me as a woman. 

In particular, episodes with sex therapist, Aleks Trkulja and a birthing mentor, Aimee Aroha, who allowed me to consider the observer perspective that women engage every twenty minutes (a lot more than men) and the need to decolonise labour and how we can protect the sacred birthing experience.

Understanding the observer perspective was something that Aleks explained to me - she said that we as human beings have the capability to come out of ourselves from an ‘observer perspective’ and that stems from keeping yourself safe. So you consider danger, and it’s natural to engage that, but women today are doing this in overdrive and are checking in with our ‘observer perspective’ every 20 minutes. It’s no longer the ‘ok there’s a guy over there and it’s dark, how is he viewing me, is he viewing me as weak, am I prey to him’ kind of observation where we are on our guard.

Instead, she references it in context of sex where worrying about how you look stops the flow because you’re considering cellulite, tummy rolls, whatever you’re insecure about while you should hopefully just be in the moment and enjoying the sexual experience and pleasure with your partner. Instead we are so concerned with how our sexual partner is perceiving us, we are not able to be in our body and actually enjoy the moment. We turned something that kept us safe into something that feeds the fire of our insecurity.

E: You mention what ways have you started to address your racism as a white woman (other than of course talking about it on the podcast), are there any other ways you’ve found to confront this?

H: Yeah, it’s an ongoing journey for me and not one that I started last year which I am glad for, in a sense that it meant I wasn’t starting from scratch when it became more of a widespread mainstream conversation. What my learning looks like is reading non-fiction books by black authors to understand the experience that they’ve lived, both UK centric and Australian (because I lived there for a number of years). Learning about decolonisation and understanding histories of other groups of people, not just white Anglos. And then conversation, you know, it might be a one way conversation where I’m listening to podcasts - one of my new podcasting friends are The Echo Chamber who talk about the experience of being working class black British women.

They speak really openly and honestly about their experiences so I’ve learned a lot through them, but I’ve got a really diverse group of friends around me so I’ve been very fortunate to be able to learn in their grace. I try really hard not to burden them with my questions, and figure it out for myself, but there are some really nuanced issues maybe around a micro-aggression or where slang is derived from which are less black and white (for want of a better phrase). Basically I try to keep on being curious about it, to never think that I’ve figured it out or feel like I know everything. What last year showed me is how much I still have to learn.

E: In your opinion what boundaries need to be broken or positive changes need to be made in the UK when it comes to things like gender equality, race and self-acceptance/mental health

H: When I think of positive change that needs to happen in the UK my heart jumps to the statistic that Black women are 5 times more likely to die in childbirth than white women. It blows my mind but also breaks my heart. Someone who is doing a lot of campaigning about this is Candice Braithwaite, author of I’m Not Your Baby Mamma, looking at how black women are treated by the healthcare system and particularly in the context of childbirth. Also Aimee who I mentioned before is a half-Māori, half-Australian woman and she talks about the colonisation process of how we give birth, and it’s so interesting because the way she describes a hospital as a harsh space, with bright lights, where everything is so fast paced is like they’re dealing with a trauma at all times, making it feel like childbirth is robbed of its natural flow.

In terms of equality, I want to see deep systemic change especially in professional environments, I want authentic diversity not tokenism. And as for mental health and self acceptance, gosh, I wish I could dive into everyone’s beautiful heads and hearts and show them how utterly wonderful they are. I lost one of my best friends to suicide in 2019 and the thought of anyone in as much pain as him saddens me so deeply. I’ve suffered with very poor mental health myself but can confidently say that I have survived that and now live a colourful, audacious and beautiful life. I encourage all to keep going and remember ‘this too shall pass’.

E: I love that phrase you used when talking about mental health - ‘this too shall pass’ . It almost feels meditational, like a mantra to come back to in dark times

H: I don’t know enough to be able to comment on systemic government policy issues around mental health, I can only comment from personal experience helping people with mental health issues and having poor mental health myself at times. I understand what a vortex it can be and it can be this dark abyss that just keeps pulling you in, in, in, in. To the point where it feels impossible to get out of. But my message is, I’ve got out of it, I’ve seen other people get out of it and it totally is possible. And actually for me, they’ve been the biggest periods of growth. They also collectively allow me to be a better empathiser because I’ve had depression, issues with addiction, disordered eating so I am grateful in a way that I’ve been through all that to be able to empathise with people experiencing the same thing.

E: So over to feminism. What would you say feminism means to you?

H: Feminism is the pursuit of equality and equity for everyone. Not just women, and not just white women. 

E: I love the word equity, when you say that, can you explain what you mean here for our readers?

H: I think it’s just to me equity covers more of the nuance that we don’t all have the same needs or the same experiences. Just because we’re seeking equality and equal opportunity, doesn’t mean we should all be treated the same as we don’t all have the same needs. So to me, equity covers the desire for quality of treatment, so it’s more respecting of the nuance of human experiences.

E: What other women inspire you?

H: I am obviously inspired by seeing womxn succeed and make change, but I am also inspired by the sisterhood around me in so many different forms. For example, a friend who put real action into sustaining her romantic relationship in a healthy way. A friend who has taught me not to prioritise being palatable with my activism. Another who lives life hard, feels deeply, sees those around her and celebrates her friends with all of her heart.

E: I saw a few times that you have previously spelled women with and ‘x’ instead of an ‘e’, I’ve heard this relates to intersectional feminism but for our readers, why is it important to use this form of feminist writing or activism in writing?

H: To me it’s just about inclusion. We live in such a binary society, and our generation and the ones younger than us are viewing everything on a spectrum. So we are dismantling this binary perspective and that includes gender. In some indigenous cultures, they have four genders which is: male male, male female, female male, female female. There’s less of a rigid perspective on what it means to be male or female.

The reason I use that spelling is because there may be someone who identifies as a woman but who may not have been born anatomically as what we perceive to be a woman, so it’s about including non-binary people, transgender people and even women and men who have transitioned from being a woman, they still have a place because part of their experience has been as a woman. To me, it’s showing that I acknowledge that it’s not quite as simple as ‘man, woman.’

E: What do you yourself do to keep your mental health in check during a lockdown?

H: Ooh! I pray, I walk, I journal, I read, I laugh, I don’t deny myself anything and I have finally got into cooking after thirty years! 

E: Audacity is your chosen word to be central for the podcast, why this word in particular?

H: Wow. Well, this word exemplifies all that I wish for myself and for my fellows (especially womxn). To me, being audacious means to radically love yourself, to forge your own path, to be collaborative not competitive, to share success, to not be palatable and to have the courage to dream big! Basically… to defy all the ways that society has traditionally forced us to be ‘good girls’.

E: What can we look forward to in 2021? Is Season 3 on the horizon? 

H: Season 3 will kick off in May in line with my one year anniversary! There are also other forms of content that I am beavering away on including toolkits to support people who want to keep it moving and have fun being audacious (the journey is the best bit). I also definitely want to prioritise sharing the LGBTQI+ experience in Season 3 to have a more full range of voices. Lastly, a newsletter that will celebrate everything that I’ve spoken about here. People can sign up now on my website and feel very special knowing they’ll get to read the very first one!