In speaking to Imriel Morgan it is clear that her focus has always been promoting and creating inclusion within the audio industry. It has been her mission to create spaces that are affordable and welcoming for creators, particularly women of colour and LGBTQIA+ podcasters who are often underrepresented in the industry.

“Inclusion is a process rather than an outcome and your participation is essential.”

These are words that not only inspire Imriel but words she has lived by through her work with Content is Queen. We live in a golden era of podcasting with content to meet even the most niche of subjects. The podcasting medium has become more and more popular for entertainment and education, and Imriel works to foster a more inclusive, vibrant, and diverse podcasting environment by amplifying marginalised groups' voices. Content is Queen offers regular creator grants to ensure all voices are included and can be heard through the noise, as well as affordable membership tiers and accessible soundproof studios.

Imriel will also be hosting the International Women's Podcast Festival (IWFP) which she launched four years ago. The festival is a two-day event designed to bring people together in their love of podcasting, audio, and broadcasting. An experience tailored to help podcasters create and grow in an inclusive, welcoming environment, celebrating diversity and creativity in this industry. The IWPF exists to unite the global community of female innovators and leaders in podcasting, audio and broadcasting. 

Imriel's description of her love of audio storytelling is like poetry - beautiful and awe-inspiring. In our brief meeting, I could feel her passion for audio storytelling and her deep understanding of the power of audio. Her enthusiasm was infectious, and I felt inspired to explore audio storytelling further. She truly believes that audio has the power to transport us to a different world and that audio storytelling can be a powerful tool and art form.

MR: I believe that there is power in sharing our lives, whether that's through art, literature or audio/visual outlets. Your work with the International Women’s Podcast Festival (IWPF) and Content is Queen helps amplify the voices of so many marginalised groups. What inspired you to create these spaces?

IM: My journey into audio specifically started in 2014, early 2015 and what inspired me to start was the Ferguson uprisings in America. I was really troubled by that as thousands of people, millions even, of people were and that was kind of the birth of the Black Lives Matter movement. I remember feeling like, here I am in the UK, a black female body in the UK, what can I do? That kind of nurtures and supports what's going on here. I was like internalising a lot of the violence and the pain and the suffering and empathising on such a deep level that it was actually starting to be detrimental to my mental state and so for me, podcasting kind of came about at that time. I listened to Serial and American Life - I kind of fell down the rabbit hole very quickly, and I was like, this is amazing.

This is a space where people are carving out their own niches and their own communities. Speaking so directly and so intimately to these communities in a way that I've just never seen or experienced, and I wanted to be able to do that for people like me, British Black women. So that's how I got started. 

I launched a podcast called Melanin Millennials and, before you knew it, we were able to carve out our own space. People didn't know that there was a space for them within news media or commentary or pop culture specifically talking about Black British issues. So, long story short, it came off the back of seeing immense suffering and pain and wanting to translate that into something good and meaningful for Black British women at first, and then it kind of evolved from there. I started to look at the whole industry and the entire worldview, the view of the mainstream media and saying, yeah, that's not representative of my views, my opinions or the people that I know. 

MR: Yeah, that's something I always say as well, like I'm always saying that, there might be someone on TV that looks like me, but it doesn't mean that they're telling my story, that they're representing who I am as a person. Do you know what I mean? And I think that's the thing that a lot of people don't understand, like you get the whole oh, you know, the Tory government have, so many people of colour representing South Asians and Black people and it's like no, they really aren't representing us, at least where it counts in terms of, like, the issues that affect us. They're actually doing the opposite. 

IM: Yes, precisely so. Yeah, we kind of wanted to counter that and ask actually, where are our views represented, shown and seen? And I do believe in diversity of thought and opinion, good, or bad. 

MR: Yeah, absolutely, because you can have a group of black women and they could have completely different upbringings, completely different views on life, and that's okay. It's about giving them the opportunity to share those different stories because there are people out there who will resonate with them. You know, like that's what I went through. 

So, no, I absolutely think giving women spaces like that to just speak honestly, is really important because I feel like we're often silenced, especially as black women 

IM: Yeah, exactly

MR: Your mission has always been to give space to the underrepresented and address the issues of poor media representation of marginalised groups, as you did through your work with the ShoutOut Network podcast collective in 2015. Since then, has there been an increase in “genuine” representation and, as I said, I say genuine representation because I believe there's a difference between someone who looks like you and someone who positively represents you.

IM: I appreciate the distinction you're making about genuine representation and you know, just representation for the sake of ticking a box or the visuals and optics of it. Um, yes, but there's so much more that could be done. In audio, in particular, I remember when I started at the ShoutOut Network, we were one of five black British podcasts. In 2015, there were five of us doing this work and in six months, it had increased to around 20; by the end of the year, it was up to 80. And it has continued to grow and grow since then. 

MR: Yeah

IM: And I'd say that often what we see rise to the top is a very two-dimensional view of Black Britishness or Black womanhood and I think those types of ideas kind of rise to the top and I don't want to necessarily throw anyone under the bus because I think all experiences are valid, but I think we kind of don't get like the fullness of women in Britain. So if you're like nerdy or into very niche subjects like I don't know, golf, comics or science fiction, you don't necessarily see Black British faces or Asian faces representing those interests in audio in the same way that you would see our white counterparts pedestalled in that way. So I would say yes, there's representation in that they exist, but they're not platformed in the same way. 

MR: Yeah, I absolutely agree and that pivots to my next question perfectly. It seems as though every celebrity under the sun has decided to start their own podcast. So, in a sea of heavily funded and sponsored competitors, how can small fish compete? 

IM: It is honestly so much harder, it's so much harder today, even with someone with my knowledge, background and longevity in the game. It is really hard and will make you feel like salmon swimming upstream, meaning that you’ll get there but you might exhaust yourself in the process. When it comes to podcasting, it is about super-serving your niche or super-serving your community. You have to really focus on your area of interest, the people you're trying to speak to, the story you're trying to tell and the point you're trying to make. So that might mean that you're not going to get thousands and tens of thousands of listeners off the jump like you might be sitting quite comfortably in the tens of listeners or the hundreds - imagine having 100 people in the room with you, that can actually be quite intimidating. What matters most is people showing up to listen to you and if they're showing up consistently week to week, that's still a healthy amount of people invested and engaged and listening and checking for you each week. 

Being successful in podcasting isn't just a numbers game, it's about what you're trying to say, who you're trying to say it to and that resonates and lands with your people or the people that align with your vision.

I know there are also loads of mega-ambitious people who want to monetise and there are probably loads of other things that they want to do with their podcast, which is really difficult. Suppose you're going for, like, a commercially successful podcast or a financially successful podcast. In that case, you're just going to have to look at things that get the money and that means that you're probably going to have to make some compromises, you're going to have to make some changes and you're going to have to do some things that you may not want to do. I wish that wasn't the case but unfortunately, if you need someone to give you money, then that person is going to have some strings attached. 

MR: Yeah, I absolutely agree. It's difficult editing and the whole general process of running a podcast, when you're like on your own, it takes a lot to get it off the ground. 

You offer an array of services at Content is Queen, such as podcast production and editing. Can you tell our readers about your services and how you can help aspiring or established podcasters? 

IM: Sure. So, we started Content is Queen with the intention of making it super accessible for creators at every stage. When I started podcasting, I was really lucky that I was, as you said, part of a wider collective. We had someone who was really interested in editing and managing the production, so that meant I always had support in that and I have been lucky enough to never need to edit. And then when I left that company, I didn't have that support anymore so I had to invest in it because I didn't have the skill needed. This is why with Content is Queen, we looked at how we could bring in studio spaces, for people who feel like they need to be in a studio to give them the confidence boost and the polish that they’re seeking. Our studio space is in Somerset House which is super accessible and we try to keep the pricing affordable and accessible. We always have a person there to help you, we have water, tea and everything set up for you. 

We also have Editors on staff who can do everything from a small polish to a full edit, which is why we offer different types of editing bundles. You can get a couple of episodes done and polished up really nicely or you can receive a full-on BBC-level broadcast edit which is also reasonably priced, like competitively priced in the market. So we try to kind of meet people where they are and say, okay, what can you afford to do? And this is where we can kind of step in and fill in the gaps for you. Editing is probably our most popular service. 

MR: Yeah, that's wonderful, because I think editing is the bit that takes up the majority of the time, especially audio editing. People don't realise how finicky and difficult that can be, especially when you're editing from a Zoom interview or Meet or whatever and like the other person has terrible audio or WiFi. 

IM: Yes, the thing is with editing people feel like it's one of those things, that is an expense that they can't necessarily afford to make and sometimes that's true, but for me, I made the choice to personally invest in an editor, even when I wasn't part of ShoutOut because I knew that it wasn’t a skill I possessed. I knew that it was going to take me 10 times longer to do it and that the results were not going to be what I wanted. So, sometimes you have to make a judgement call.

What we often find with our editing requests, is that people just need a tidy or a few cuts to make beautiful and seamless edits, and our editors are professional quick. 

MR: That's awesome! I would tell anyone if you don't have the time or the patience, definitely get someone else to do it for you. 

IM: Yeah, that's how I feel about it. 

MR: Do you have any other advice for someone looking to launch a podcast? Where should they begin? 

IM: I would say, start with having a robust enough list of content. I often do a lot of development strategies where people have ideas and I think you can always have the initial Oh, I know that there should be a podcast about this and you've got the story in your heart and you feel it. But until you commit to putting down like 20, 30, 40, 50 ideas on paper, you'll know quite quickly in that process alone, whether you've got enough there to sustain a podcast. It also depends on what kind of podcast you're trying to create. Also, people always assume that they have to do a weekly show but you don't, actually, you can do what you want. 

And if you don't have 20 or 30 ideas, but you still feel like this thing should exist, then do a series and then start incorporating all of the ideas that you came up with. You might also find that as you're listing these ideas there are loads of overlaps and similarities. It’s a really worthwhile exercise and I think 30 is a good number to get to because that's essentially a year of content with a few gaps in between. 

MR: In the last 4 years podcast listening has almost doubled. Why do you think that is? 

IM: Probably because there has been an influx of celebrities adding their name and star power to the medium. I'm not going to pretend that there's not been value in that because it does inherently put the word podcast into people's psyche in a way that it never did before. 

Yeah, and the other reason is because ultimately, people are looking for connection and intimacy - a way to feel connected. Podcasts are uniquely able to capture you in such an intimate setting as you can literally find the person who is speaking your language. You can find someone who is just as into the dorky thing or niche interests that you're into. Like, whatever you're into, there is a podcast for it. Like I'm into urban planning and development and there are several podcasts about it, there's a whole series called Strong Towns and I am really into it.

So, I think podcast listening is doubling because people are looking for those kinds of connections. They want to find that intimate connection with the host in a way that you just can't with video. I think video has its place and it's definitely increasingly having its place in podcasting but there's something about listening to someone's voice, it strips away any kind of preconceived notions and preconceived judgments that you might have about someone. Yes, you might be able to infer certain things about a person's race, gender, ethnicity, etc. from a voice, but for the most part, it's not an active part of your experience. 

You're kind of stripping it down to just the content and what the person's saying and the story that they've got to tell, and I think there's so much power in that. That is literally what got me down the rabbit hole of audio. I just connected with great stories and I want to hear more great stories. I built relationships through audio and I think people are experiencing the same which is why we're seeing an increase in podcast listenership at a very rapid pace in the last couple of years. Also, there's been major investments by big companies as well which has helped as well. 

MR: Absolutely. I remember I started listening to podcasts like in 2013. I started delving into podcasts starting with audio plays/story podcasts and then I found other talking podcasts that were more interview-based. The medium has definitely evolved over the years.

What's your favourite podcast and what would you recommend for our readers? What are you listening to now? 

IM: I'm actually re-listening to Serial, I'm listening to the Trojan Horse story and it’s really good. The Trojan Horse is a UK story about a letter that was written that essentially claimed that there was an Islamic plot to infiltrate high schools and radicalise children in schools. The letter is kind of ridiculous, but they go on this journey to find that out. I'm enjoying listening to it all over again. 

MR: It is good. I like Serial. 

IM: Yeah. So, if I had to be like, what keeps me returning? If I had to pick a show that always keeps me coming back, I would say that it’s probably The Conversation Weekly because they cover the news and academics, giving you their insights from an academic and institutional perspective. You actually get informed detailed political analysis from political scientists. And you also get scientific innovation and they answer questions such as, why do people smile? Or sometimes they latch on to big headlines and you get just news from elsewhere and it’s refreshing. 

MR: So we've got the International Women's Podcast Festival coming up in October. What can we expect and what should we look forward to? 

IM: Oh, we are going so big this year. So we have Sarah Koenig for the 10-year anniversary of Serial. We are hosting An evening with Sarah Koenig at the South Bank Centre in the Royal Festival Hall itself. So absolutely an enormous venue, probably the biggest thing I've ever done but I don't want to say it's the biggest thing I'll ever do, but it's definitely the biggest thing I've done so far. I'm really excited about her coming to London to celebrate the 10th anniversary of this monumental podcast and her work on that podcast. I feel very honoured to be a part of it. 

On October 3rd we've got the evening with Sarah Koenig which is opening up the festival and then on October 4th we're kind of drilling down into the specifics of podcasting, the world of audio and hoping to celebrate the women who are speaking and delivering incredible talks, panels and workshops. If you're a first-time podcaster, there is a space for you as well as established producers or people who are hoping to start and have a flourishing career in audio. It is an incredible space to not only upskill but it is phenomenal for networking. People have come to our festivals before and have received commissions from the BBC and from Spotify and have gone on to do really, really incredible things. 

So the festival is a place where it's just warm and really inclusive. We try to make sure it feels safe and inviting and accessible at every level. And yeah, it's just such a labour of love to put on. But when you see it in action and when you kind of see how people start naturally interacting with each other without too much pressure, like the shyest of people. Podcasters can be the shyest people, and so you see them coming out of their shells and like the most introverted people, having lovely chats with you. It's an amazing environment for that and I'm really looking forward to bringing that energy back on October 4th. 

MR: I can't wait to attend. I'm looking forward to it. 

IM: It'd be lovely to meet you in person and say hi, yeah. 

MR: Me too! This is actually going to be your fourth year. Can you share some highlights? What are your biggest takeaways from hosting each year?

IM: Oh, kind of what I said. Yeah, actually, like in the run-up to the festival, it's always like this big thing, like, okay, we need to get like a huge name or we need to have like some celebrity or like some big magnet that attracts people and that's going to be the thing, and actually that's never the thing.

People stick around and in fact, many people attend the festival because of the pure value of what they learn and take away and can use afterwards.. So, four years in, I just know that people are going to be walking away with the utmost confidence to go off and like to create their idea, knowing that their idea has meaning and value and that there's going to be people cheering for them when they launch or start. 

I remember someone literally launched their podcast off the back of the festival and then had like an inbuilt community around them from the festival that just like kind of carried it off into the ether and then they've gone on to win awards. Like every year I host it, I'm like, oh, I need to find like the next big thing, or I need to do this and I get tunnel vision about what needs to happen, but the thing that needs to happen is creating the best environment. So, four years in, it is literally about the people in the room, making sure that there's a really good mix of people in the room. So we try to keep the tickets as affordable as possible and we try to make sure that the workshops cover every level so that people can feel confident and happy that the knowledge that's being shared is going to be achievable and understandable.

And then the speakers, we make sure we pay all of them. Like, we are really dead set on it because if we're going to have an event for women, we've got to make sure that they are paid because often they are freelancers. We make sure that everyone is paid and that everyone is looked after. So, yeah, four years of hosting. The highlights are the connections that get made every time, every single time. 

MR: Who would be your dream guest and why?

IM: For the festival?

MR: Yeah.

IM: I mean, Sarah was my dream guest and I've got her now. How do you top that, Sarah Koenig? We had been working on that for two years. Last year we couldn't have the festival due to not having enough funding to put it together and I knew from two years ago that October 3rd was the 10th anniversary of Serial so I was determined to get her for the 10th anniversary. I knew that someone was going to jump in and grab her so I had to move fast. I couldn’t believe it when they said that she was free and that she would do it!

So, yeah, she was my dream guest and to meet her, and be in her circle of influence, I'm really, really excited about it. Second to that, uh, would be Oprah. If I got Oprah, oh my god! Oprah would be someone that I would look to just because she's not just had a podcast but also she's an incredible broadcaster. She ran her own production company, she's done it all and I think she’s just an insane well of knowledge and just being in her sphere would just be incredible. 

I'm going to make those things happen.

MR: Okay well, let's put out good vibes, I'll put it out there. So, what drew you to audio storytelling? 

IM: It was a combination of things. So I met my former co-founder on Tinder and he wanted to start a podcast network, the ShoutOut Network. He didn't really know what he was doing in terms of running a business, starting up a company, or website branding, at the time I was at a startup working as an Account Manager but content marketing was increasingly becoming part of my job role. So I helped him start that but at the time I hadn't listened to any podcasts. And then my colleague at work said, hey, have you heard this show called Serial? And I was like no, what's that? And then, before you know it I had binged the whole thing and then I needed more. So then I went on to listen to This American Life and the thing that actually took me down the rabbit hole wasn't necessarily Serial itself, because it didn't inspire me to want to start. It was an episode of This American Life and I don't remember the title. I should look it up. 

They did an episode on the Chicago public school system and the disadvantages that those kids face. From insane poverty levels in the family and within the public school system, but also just the risk of being shot walking to and from school. It felt very visceral and very powerful at that moment and I remember them just kind of telling the story and I remember sitting on the train in like floods of tears. I was just crying like I didn't know that audio could move you like that. I had never cried listening to anything. There is magic in audio and I wanted to be able to find a way to bring that magic to other people. 

I didn't anticipate that I would get on the mic but it helped build up confidence in myself. If you were to ask me 10 years ago, would I have been able to sit here and even speak to you now? Like I would have just been cripplingly shy and been giving you one-word answers. So even just my confidence and ability to speak and share or even run festivals and a company, none of that would have happened outside.

That episode really was the thing that instigated everything, like it lit a fire in me. I have never been that inspired. There is so much power in the voice and there's so much power in the story. I've not been the same since.

MR: Wow, I was going to ask you what you love about it and why you think it's so important, but I think you kind of answered that. I have to agree, I think, especially with what's happened within the last 20 years in terms of, you know, the lockdown and being overrun by a somewhat fascist government. 

I think podcasting has sort of brought people together in a way they can share their stories and you know you can listen at any point. It's not regimented and I think it's enabling people to learn as well as become empathetic to other people's situations. 

IM: Absolutely 

MR: I think without it we wouldn't be where we are in terms of like the social justice movements and environmental movements and things like that because people are able to share information without it being overwhelming and share it in a way that's more bite-sized and easy to understand. 

IM: Yeah, exactly, I think that is, by and large, everything you said is something I completely agree with, have said in some shape or form. It is very much the thing that can change the world for the better. Yes, there's definitely an active contingent trying to change it for the worse. We call those the red pill. There needs to definitely be some regulation in podcasting. I'm gonna advocate for regulation on misinformation and disinformation but until then it does have the power to change things for the good because you can just find someone speaking your language. And to kind of jump back a little bit to what you said about people starting out or people thinking of starting a podcast. 

Don't let the idea that this content already exists or someone's already talking about something dissuade you from starting, even if you want to cover the same topic because your voice is so specific and so unique to you and it's such an intimate medium that it doesn’t matter if you are saying the same thing as someone else, verbatim because I may prefer the sound of your voice to theirs. 

Like I said, there's power in the voice, there's power in the story and we need more people speaking their truth and telling those stories out loud because it will resonate with people. You will find a community and it may not be a massive community but they will be there to listen to what you have to say. It's always worth putting yourself out there, even if you're scared, just because sometimes there's going to be someone who's going to receive it and be so thankful that you did. 

MR: Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. Do you have any exciting new projects in the works?

IM: We do, actually. So aside from the whole festival that I'm planning, we recently won an Innovate UK Grant late last year.

MR: Congratulations! 

IM: Thank you. We aim to build an Opportunities Marketplace for audio creators, predominantly. So we've been building away for the last three months creating a platform that enables audio creators to connect with commissioners and advertisers to get opportunities, be they jobs, commission pitches or advertising campaigns. So the build should be complete soon and we'll start rolling out testers to kind of see how it functions and what needs to be changed and tweaked. 

But I'm really excited about the Marketplace because it's one of the things that we've been trying to do at Content is Queen, but it's me and a very small team trying to push opportunities to the masses and we're only so big and we've only got so much time and resources. So, commissioners, get the benefit of tapping into a diverse group of talented people and creators will gain access to opportunities that they ordinarily wouldn't have heard about because they get passed or circulated through these private networks. And for people interested in monetising their content they will get the chance to be put in front of advertisers. 

The money tends to flow to a select few and actually, there's value in the communities that are niche and different and actually will be far more valuable to a brand overall, and they exist in podcasts that they're not necessarily reaching at the top. 

So, yeah, I'm really excited about that. I didn't think I'd end up in a tech space again, but here I am and we've been developing and building and, yeah, I hope to have something to show for all of our efforts by the end of May. The Innovate team thought it was a great investment. I haven't seen that many black women doing audio-related innovation and I've seen a lot of women in tech in general but there are hardly any women represented in audio and broadcasting. 

MR: I remember going to a broadcasting conference and just being dumbfounded at the amount of men being celebrated and appearing on stage. It didn't hit me until I saw five women speaking at a UKTV event, and I thought 'Oh my God,' because I had never seen so many women talk about broadcasting before. You know what I mean? This was one of those aha moments for me because I'm so used to being surrounded by men that I was surprised to see that many women at once. There were only five women on stage.

IM: This is literally how the festival was born because I would attend podcasting and audio events and I'd literally be one of two women. This struck me and so I was like where are the women? I knew we existed, I knew they were there but no one's like acknowledging them, celebrating them, empowering them or putting them on stage. So that is how the festival was born, I wanted to celebrate these women and put them on stage.

Women have things to share, they know stuff, they're very talented and in fact, they're probably the reason why loads of things are successful. i.e. Sarah Koenig, who was the reason why podcasting became so popular in the first place. Like no one has connected the dots. It's always two white guys on the microphone. 

Sarah was the person who brought it into public consciousness, she likes the reason we talk about podcasting and the most popular podcasters are women. 

MR: Yeah, like anytime you go on a top 10 list, it's always women. Even if it's, you know, shows like Call Her Daddy, and podcasts like that, where it's more pop culture-focused conversations, it doesn't matter. Women are still beating out the men in that area, and women by and large, listen more so than men. 

IM: Oh increasingly so. According to a study I reviewed, women like to listen to other women, and we overwhelmingly listen to other women. Men don't really listen to women, which is entirely unsurprising. 

MR: I used to listen to Dax Shepard's podcast until it became too infuriating to listen to because he kept talking over his guests. Many male-based podcasts just talk over their guests and then bring it back to them somehow, whereas women don't do that, we listen, and there is a real difference in the content we create. 

IM: You can say the same things or have the same point of view, but how you convey it matters, because there is a very popular podcast I won't name, but it's really popular and it's hosted by a man. It's an interview show. I can see why this is a good show for a few reasons, I just don't like their voices. Like I just can't do it. But my partner loves that show and plays it out loud, and I can't stand the voice of this person. And the thing is it's an interview show, so really, I should just be hearing the voice of the person they're speaking to but I only ever hear his voice. Why can’t he just let them speak, let them speak? Audio is too intimate, it's too specific. You can get into the zone with the right podcast. 

MR:  or they can annoy the hell out of you. 

IM: Ha! Yeah